Steve Gough Interview

by Marty Schnorf

Steve Gough Interview - Part I

Steve was asked about his background in sports and

how he got started in weightlifting, who some of the

lifters he coached were and what they had done, how

he would describe his traininmg philosophy, and a little

about some of the coaches who had an influence on

him as far as his training philosophy, and his thoughts

about the OTC program.

In future questions, we will ask Steve more about his

training philosophy and some lifters he has watched

who impressed him, and his ideas on improving lifting

in the US.

Marty: Thank you for the opportunity, though I must

say that it is you who is really helping our sport with

your out-in-the-front leadership. The old refrain "that it

is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease" seems not

to be the case with USAWeightlifting. Sometimes it

seems that what we say is falling on deaf ears. And

then again there is anecdotal evidence that what we

have to say is being heard (and acted upon) by more

than just a few of our more open-minded peers. I

believe that it will take the power of the voting booth,

aka the BOG, to determine whether or not our peers

are really listening... and believing. Then and only then

will GoHeavy really be reaching its potential.

I will try to answer your questions fully. I will confess

that often times I tend to leave out much that maybe

pertinent... a penchant of the wandering and aging

mind I suspect.

As a kid growing up in San Francisco much of my

life was filled with playing organized basketball and

baseball,along with stickball, strikeouts, pickup games

of hunch, touch football (always running up the steep

hill I lived on). CYO had a lot to do with the organized

part and in particular certain individuals (adult men)

who freely gave up their time (and probably money).

The example set by those men had a profound impact

on me in later years when it game to be my turn to do

my duty, to do my part. I still feel that way.

As for weightlifting, in the late 50's one of my

neighbors built a small gym in his garage. And often

times we tried to emulate the Konos, Emrichs,

Schmanskis, etc in the old Strength and Health. Yet, I

was unaware of any competitive goings-on in my area

at the time. In late '65 I enlisted in the Marine Corps,

subsequently going to Vietnam later in '66 and

spending almost the entire year of '67 in-country. More

than any single entity the Marine Corps gave me the

realization of just what a man could do, how much he

could withstand, both physically and emotionally. What

people could do working together for a common goal,

even under the most trying of circumstance.

I became a San Francisco policeman in January of

'69 and within a year or so I started to lift weights

again. In San Francisco there was really only one

place to lift weights seriously... and that was Jim

Schmitz's Sports Palace. Meeting Jim Schmitz brought

on a 35 year friendship, which exists to this very day.

Jim had a profound impact on me and when I began

coaching years later it was his basic format that I

began with. Training in an environment loaded with

National Champions, recold holders and Olympians

(the likes of Ken Clark, Mario Martinez, Dan Cantore,

Bruce Wilhem and on and on and on) tends to give

one a different perspective... a perspective which

holds few bounds.. The Sports Palce of those days

was a competitive environment that did much to shape

my thinking and subsequently help produce very good

results later on in my coaching career.

Never having formal training or schooling as far as

our sport goes I was always particularly keen on

digesting the experience, thoughts and methods of

others. From Jim Schmitz's basic three days a week

training I added a day... soon I added another. Why

not? I loved this coaching thing. The Angel Spassov

visit further ignited the learning process, expanding

the known limits of training capacity beyond anything I

had seen so far in my w/l experience. Then Lyn Jones

and Drago came aboard and good things really started

to happen. I use to bend Drago's ear on a near-daily

basis... especially when some of my more talented

juniors went to the OTC. But, it was actually a Lyn

Jones article in Bob Hise's magazine about the

Bulgarian training system that really opened up my

eyes. I had always tended to drive my lifters towards

the extreme. But that included besides the lifts every

assistant exercise you could think of. But so many of

those assistance exercises I could never really

understand the why's, the wherefore's, the when's to

place them in your scheme of things. Then here

comes along the best lifting country in the world

saying to forget them entirely. Made sense to me, at

least enough to give it a try.

My first real go at it was with my son Tom (82.5)

and my super lifter Jasha Faye as they both prepared

for the '91 Junior Worlds a few weeks away. School

interfered with doing Jones interpretation verbatum, so

I broke it up somewhat and gave it a shot. As I look

back I concede it was a "killer," too tough at the time

for Jasha to handle, and yet, Tom really took off with

it. Mind you, I steered this effort without a really good

grip on the dynamics involved, not realizing all the little

nuiances, etc etc. I was coaching from a magazine

article not really knowing the why's the Bulgarians did

it this way, only knowing that they did.

In approx a two week period Tom went from a 132.5

snatch to 142.5 (straps) and from 165 C&J to 175

C&J. Outstanding to say the least. It was a rush job

,quite frankly, fueled by Toms own incredible drive and

toughness. I was jumping the gun on a system that

would actually take me years to understand, and really

never quite master.

For several years all my best juniors went to the

OTC (Tom, Jasha, Pete (Pietro) Sciano, Tom Logan

and subsequently followed by Jason Kristol in the

latter part of the 90's. With the best off in Mecca, there

were lean years at the old' Marin Training Center, until

fortune brought back Jasha from the OTC and the

coming together of Jasha, John (Barney) Tremblay,

the great Jeff Michaels, Dan Lang, Dave Conragan,

Louie Nave and to a lesser extent Kevin Winters (who

I had worked with over the years) and John Coniff

among others. All vying for a shot at the '96 Olympic

Trials. Five made it from the Marin Training Center's

team, with three more on the bubble. It was a most

exciting and satisfying time for me in our sport. The

funny thing about the system that I have come to

employ is that it doesn't necessarily rely on any

creative genius on my part. I was fortunate enough to

have intelligent, driven athletes. I put it out there the

level they needed to reach and they went after it and,

for the most part, succeeded. You know the ol' "you

can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em

drink."

For some, school got in the way, jobs got in the

way, distance and travel got in the way, family

commitments/responsibilities got in the way. The

situation was never perfect ala say the OTC. But spirit

and fire and determination were never lacking. It is

easier to explain by citing our three supers (jasha,

barney and jeff). All trained together, by and large

following the same outline, ie, snatch, C&J and squat.

To quote a recent Jeff Michael's recollection "it was

like competing in a meet against each other three

days a week, every week for nine months." The

sessions ususally concentrated on one lift and squat.

Every session was intense, self-driven, yet always

mutually driven by three individuals who couldn't stand

losing to their training partners, no matter what the

endeavor, no matter how fatigued, how wornout,

whether attempting something never tried before or

something that defeated them that day, over and over.

And all done with a smile, an occasional flash of anger

(though rare), a ton of barbs and more humor than

SNL. Some of the hightlights training-wise was the

three of them pushing/driving/compelling each other to

a 160 snatch and/or a 200 kg C&J in a training

session. Not particulary great weights except when

you realize that Jeff was approx 35 years of age and

coming off a long lay off. Or Barney pushing 30 with a

passel of kids to feed all the while working late nights

and less than three years in the sport and never really

able to devote near enough time to train. And Jasha,

having left the OTC in early summer of '95, a couple of

bulging disks in his lower back, torn pec and shoulder,

disheartened after only a 137.5 snatch at the

Nationals and ready to hang up his lifting shoes (only

to come back and nail 165 at the OLY Trials the

following year).

The dynamic really hasn't changed, except that

more training sessions are added that we weren't able

to do before. There is more attention to rest periods

given throughout the course of a workout. And both

lifts are attempted each training session. The

philosophy is quite simple.... three days per week

(preferrably pm), snatch, rest, c&J, rest, squat, rest

snatch and so one with occasional fine-tuning and

some alterations of sequence, depending on.... well I

hope you get the picture. Morning sessions of those

three days are shorter and at a lesser intensity.

Alternate days less intense yet, sometimes utilizing

power movements depending on the individuals

needs. The process was and is to find what each lifter

had/has in his tank and bring it out of him. Target

weights are attacked. And if the competitive

environment can draw even more, then so be it. If one

can't seem to quite reach it, then consider the options

of which there may be many. Options I sometimes use

include: reset your target weights or stopping

altogether (if warranted) or dropping down and coming

backup (whether using the same sequence or a

slightly different one where you think applicable) or

coming back for another session (and another if fit

enough and warranted). Often times we will hold an

impromtu meet with targeted attempts followed by a

complete training session or conversely, a complete

training session followed by an impromptu meet...

always trying to mimic that competitve situation and

seriousness of purpose.

When to push on, when to call it? What are you

looking to get out of this training session? Is it

reasonable? In the larger scheme of things will it help

you reach your goal? How's the energy level (both

physical and emotional)? Will one more help you

today, yet hurt you tomorrow? When is enough,

enough? or not enough? These are questions I

imagine that our more successful foreign counterparts

must ask themselves. These are questions that I ask

myself. Time is of the essence, waste it and you will

not get it back. Which brings up the question of the

OTC. You can't but help get the feeling that there is no

sense of urgency coming from the very place whose

every effort should be one of urgent necessity. If our

lives depended on their modus operandi we would be

exactly where USAWeightlifting is in international

rankings... all bet dead and buried. It takes courage to

lead, especially if you are wracked by indecision,

afraid to take steps not affirmed by the status quo. But

the status quo is the very reason we are where we find

ourselves. Fifteen years ago our leadership took the

chance and brought in qualified (or so we thought)

people to get the ball rolling. We had sucess and iin

time it ran its course. Time does not stand still. We

have to do it again, and again, and again if need be

until we get it right. Search and find those willing and

able. We have to support those people all the while

holding their feet to the fire. We have to create and

maintain a sense of urgency until there is no longer a

need. There is no other way.

As a final note, some of the athletes I have coached

from inception are: Tom Gough (Olympian, world jrs,

srs, pan ams, many time record holder, winner Silver

Dragon) Jasha Faye ( Super Natl jr champ and nat jr

recold holder, jr worlds), Pete Sciano (natl jr champ

and record holder, jr worlds), Tim Logan (natl jur

champ and record holder), Jason Kristol (super nat jr

champ, record holder, bronze medalist jr worlds).

Chris Marie (french super nat champ record holder),

Justin Braun (super nat coll champ), John Tremblay

(super '96 oly trials), Dave Conragan ('97 Sr Nat

champ).

I have also coached/trained hands-on: Ric Eaton

(87 Pan Ams, 88 oly trials), Kevin Winters (88 oly

trials), Jeff Michaels (95 amer, 96 nat champs, oly

trials), John Coniff (gold medalists '95 sr nats C&J, 96

oly trials), and Dan Lang (nat level competitor silver

med nat chmps,etc) Matt Thompson (super, 2000

NACCI)

Steve

Steve Gough Interview - Part II

Tell us more about how Tom (Gough) trained near his

peak. What were his best in front/back squats? What

are your thoughts about the OTC and Tom's and your

experience there?

One thing I have heard about training at the OTC is

that almost all of the lifters train the same irrespective

of their weaknesses. True? Agree or disagree? Why?

Tom was a resident of the OTC twice (91-92 and 94-

2000)) and was in Dragomir's hands until the last year

or two when Tom started to apply his own take on

what I had been preaching. Tom and Dragomir had a

history/habit of butting heads of which I got to witness

first hand several times. The relationship put a pall

over the whole experience, yet Tom trained well right

up to the Games. Unfortunately, it didn't really pay off

till he reached Sydney where he was in excellent

shape. But, alas, he didn't get to lift there and we

never got to find out what he really could have done.

I would much rather you talk to Tom directly and

get it straight from the horse's mouth as much of my

contribution was mainly by telephone. Although, in

1999 I spent two and a half months at the OTC

working with him daily in prep for the Athens Worlds.

Tom created an unusual approach after the 2000 Oly

trials leading up to the Games.... basically, on Mon,

Wed and Friday mornings he would snatch

120x1,140x1,160x1 (Apparently getting to the point of

being rote). His confidence with the big jumps

reminded me somewhat of David Rigert after Munich

(Rigert was one of Tom's heroes). Tom has always

been very strong mentally with the weights. Just ask

Randy Strossen of Milo who trained with us during

Tom's early stages of his lifting career. The pm

sessions would find him snatching up to 170 kgs. I

don't recall his C&Js and squatting poundages for that

period, but in an effort to improve his jerk (which cost

him in Atlanta and Thailand dearly) he would jerk off

the blocks to the point he one day advised me he

jerked 200 kgs for triples and one set for 5. Once there

he called me routinely from Australia where in one of

the last weeks of training leading up to the Games he

had worked up to 170 kgs in the snatch and 210 in the

C&J on both his heavy workouts that week. He was

very excited and confident, planning on moving up to

175/177.5 and 215 for the following week which was

to be his last hvy training sessions before tapering off

somewhat for competition. His bodyweight was always

kept at 94 kgs due to his experience at Atlanta coming

in way too heavy a week out (6 kgs over) and costing

him unnecessarily. In Australia Tom was more

confident than I had ever known him to be before. He

was now routinely handling a 380 total approx twice a

week and determined to up that to 390 or better on the

"big day." Not quite the 400 kg level that the medal

dais demanded, but respectable, very respectable. It

is too bad that he hadn't gone that route several years

before. I've always felt that both he and Wes really

missed out by not putting the pedal-to-the-metal right

ater Atlanta. There you are... that sense of urgency

that I have mentioned to you previously. Honest to

God I don't know what we are waiting for.

His best BS was 272.5 X2 or 3. His best FS was

240 kgs (several days ago we talked about it and he

reminded me that it was very easy). He actually c&jed

215 in training at that time, weighing in the high 90's in

prep for the '97 Worlds. At those World

Championships he twice cleaned 212.5 for the bronze

only to miss the jerk. Dragomir would subsequently

relate to me that they got to Thailand way too late, no

time to acclimate, possibly costing him that medal.

Drago's sentiments at the time, not mine. Too bad!

Tom had developed a real discomfort in his left

upper back (rhomboid area?) over the last couple of

years in his career and wound up front squatting

soley. A position of which I have advocated for years

now.

As far as the OTC and one size (routine) fits all...

I do not especially find fault with one size fits all if (and

a big if) you are training under a Bulgarian style

approach. After all, what is the name of the game? but

snatch and clean and jerk. Of course subtle and not so

subtle differences in fitness levels and general talent

for either lift may dictate a somewhat different

approach for certain individuals, yet they will all

concentrate on the lifts and at a very high intensity.

But if not utilizing the Bulgarian approach what do you

generally see, especially in American lifters? For my

money I see a lack of real speed and explosiveness

(at least not where it could and should be). An

apparent unfamiliarity lifting big/max weights as a

matter of course in one's training on a regular basis.

And as a result of that lack of a heavy lifting history in

training an almost certain TIMIDNESS when it comes

to the international platform and challenging the "big

dogs." My real criticism of the OTC and the training

methods/philosophy employed would be that "it is not

working, it has not worked for years. And no one

seems to want to rectify it, much less admit it." There

is an incredible rigid inflexibility in our thinking,

bordering on and including self-denial. Yes, the

emperor has no clothes, but apparently he refuses to

look in the mirror and see himself for what he is.